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 Issue concerning staff incompetency and site failure in serving its members.

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Chinou
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PostSubject: Issue concerning staff incompetency and site failure in serving its members.   4/18/2014, 5:20 pm

A moderator is defined as an arbitrator or mediator, a person who moderates an internet message board or chat room. They're there - rather appointed to settle disputes among members, to offer a resolution that gratifies just not one party, but both parties. Sure, equality doesn't exist when confronting parties with conflicting views and different way of thinking, but a resolution is supposed to solve a problem, not escalate or push it aside only for the same issue to be brought up in future disputes. Eg. Body Replacement, Tier Speeds, Vague Manipulation, Metagaming, among other topics.

Staff are there to serve the members, and as demeaning as it sounds, that's the sound, irrefutable truth of the purpose of an individual belonging to the staff on any RP board. You serve the members, although not to the extent of being abused by them, but to a degree to which members feel comfortable bringing a matter to you because they know they can trust you with the issue at hand and wholeheartedly believe a resolution will be brought to the matter without any form of bias. So why is it that members here are torn between who to go to in order for their issue to be dealt with? Why is it that members get picked on by the staff who should be shepherding them or better yet, allow a member to be harassed while they idly watch because they have a personal vendetta against the victim in question?

The underlying fact focuses in on the staff's incompetency as a whole. No one individual is being singled-out because the staff are supposed to be a team, collective of individuals ultimately striving to achieve the same goal: the success of TNRPG and satisfaction of its members. If a staff member should stumble and fail occasionally or render bogus and flawed judgement, blame falls on the staff as a whole in failing to instruct said individual properly and equip them with the right tools (rules, profound knowledge of Naruto(debatable, I suppose), intelligence (very important when dealing with matters such as vague manipulation and questioning the logic of an action in a member's post), patience (do i really need to explain?), tolerance and impartiality).

The inability of the staff to come to a unanimous decision on some issues and conflict topics needs to be monitored and fixed accordingly, preferably quickly. Perhaps it has to do with information being held out in the staff parliament, ignorance and arrogance of certain individuals or the far from exemplary presence of a certain dominant member of the staff - whatever it may be, it should be fixed. A sweep of the current moderators, inauguration of one more Administrator and proper cultivation of the current staff would be most helpful in creating a stellar staff group.


The other pressing issue at hand is the way conflicts are dealt with. We are all imperfect, we make mistakes. We make grammatical errors, we forget to add in a bit of information here and there. When people are fighting in RP, they get carried away with the action and forget the basis of said actions sometimes. So why can't the staff compensate for our lack of perfection and give us the opportunity to edit our post to fix our errors? Or perform the action the way it should be done, such as hand signs for all ninjutsu, instead of being penalized? Not everyone knows about this rule, in fact I've only just become acquainted with it because of everyone talking about it just recently. Sure, maybe I should've read the rules more carefully, but I'm here to role-play... not read rules. Most are guilty of this. One of the few times the rules are given attention are in situations as these, where members try to call classless and cheap hits like, "you didn't create hand signs, there fore action never happened and you're dead." It is actually so silly and shouldn't be allowed.

I always figured this was a role-play site, a hobby of mine really. It wasn't supposed to get this complicated or stressful. Why should I be punished for not executing the Body Replacement Technique properly when there is absolutely no topic with clear and precise explanation as to the use of BRT? Not to mention doing it exactly how it was shown in the manga and anime. I should be allowed to edit my post to execute the technique properly, the way it should have been done, instead of my action being voided - which makes no sense since my intentions were to use the technique in the first place, so why should it be "voided" because I didn't do it properly?

Staff, become better in serving your members. It's not demeaning in any way, that's your job. If you don't like it, you shouldn't be on staff. Members, please... stop with the cheap tactics and cheap shots. Go play CoD or WoW or Battlefield for that sort of crap. This is a role-playing forum. Better yet, learn how to role-play before you engage in fights. There's been the issue of how every fight topic has led to the creation of a conflict topic. You know why? Because of cheap shots. It's not because I don't like losing or want to lose. Who really wants to lose? No one. Cheap shots aggravate people. Vague manipulation aggravates people. Why should I be banned from creating conflict topics in every fight I engage in if my opponents are always stooping low to utilize cheap shots and use vague manipulation (which is against the rules yet seems to be allowed and promoted by the staff itself).

Sure, I could leave if I don't like how the site operates, but I've chosen not to, because I like to role-play. And there's really nothing else out there, sooo yeah.

This is my piece for the time being. What other issues have you, Guest, found with the site?

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

[13:41:34] Cut Uchiha : one post, now Raeburn a ghost. BANG BANG

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Lokifur Khaddaoui
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PostSubject: Re: Issue concerning staff incompetency and site failure in serving its members.   4/18/2014, 5:46 pm

1. Text wall making your own definitions of a staff aren't original. They're a bunch of a fluff proposing no solutions and showing arrogance. You're saying staff should be unified and add more people. This isn't original. This isn't a solution. There's no problem, as well. People are simply losing fights or getting punished for their obvious wrong actions like you are. What problem is there in the staff that you can specifically point out for this site? Lemme answer this for you...There is none. Things are getting checked, people who need to be punished are punished, and the activity of the site is good. You've no grounds for asking for change.

2. You're banned for insulting members on chat and trolling them, but you decide to post this? Odd, I think the staff is doing their job dealing with things. You're not being picked on. You're being punished for obvious wrong actions. Oh yeah, you're unbanned by the way because it's almost been a day, but it's probably later you should be unbanned.

3. People are silenced on chat or have the chat cleared, so that there is no bias, and that there is neutrality.

4. People die when they make mistakes, as other people try more than those people. The site isn't meant to please everybody or make it so people can just erase their mistakes whenever they want. Part of RPing is making mistakes and dying. There's no "fair" way to die.

5. Editing your posts would slow down the RP and make things silly. There would be no threat of danger for characters and the site wants to promote this. Why? Because it's a ninja RP. What are ninja? People who kill for a living and are in a military. Are mistakes allowed? No, or a ninja would die, or lose something. You don't get things for free in life and you don't get millions of more chances. Society doesn't work that way for various reasons.

6. Read rules. There's no excuse not to. You spend more time on the chatbox, Skype, playing videogames, being online, making RP posts, etc. No excuse. People just want to be lazy and have things handed down to them on a silver platter like I've already detailed above. Do you know how vague manipulation works? It works both ways. If people aren't allowed to fill in details, as every RP allows, then the RP is stalled. Also, if details aren't filled in, you have Dandy's/Haitian's style of RPing against you. There's no middle ground. There's no definition. RPing is a bunch of words that are either vague or not vague. You can't pick certain parameters.

7. A RP character dying is punishment? Since when? If it's a hobby, a character dying shouldn't be so important. Why are you so confident about how to use ____ things? Why do you arrogantly think that you can use _____ methods to attack and succeed? There's no reason your Body Replacement should work, or you can be better than somebody else in battle. You're pointing fingers saying people try harder or are more lucky then you are, but they aren't. Things are voided to save time and to teach how to learn how to use things correctly.

8. Serving members? Wut? We're not your life. Your parents aren't your slave. Your colleagues aren't your slaves. Your environment isn't your slave. We're human beings just like you and because of your mistakes that you make we're expected to have more knowledge then you. You're not putting any effort into things and you want everything served to you, but you can't give solutions, or any logic?

9. "Learn how to RP". "This is a role playing forum". Nu, it's a community. It's a place where there are rules like every other place in the world. There's no definition of role playing. You don't know everything about role playing, you're not on as much, and you're biased to your connections with other people. Unlike other people, you're the unique existence in a community that decided to speak out for no reason, as you were banned unlike other people. Friends and people you respect, or knowledge you thought you had a grasp of; all of these things were disrupted. Now, you've decided that somehow arrogantly and ignorantly affects everybody else. It doesn't. It won't. Life continues. Not having conflicts won't erase inferiority. It won't create equality or neutrality. Conflicts exist everywhere and even if there weren't "cheap shots" you're so afraid of; there would still be other problems. Vague manipulation doesn't exist. It works both ways and is integrated into RPing, but people somehow believe it's a style, or something incomprehensible they can't understand. The reason Juicy, Dandy, Kazumi, and n00bs all die so easily is because it's not a supreme style of RPing. It's a gambling style where people just use the words that are matched in RPing, and that's why they always die to n00bs, or people who "suddenly" or "luckily" pick out certain mistakes in what they do. Le stop having expectations or being blind and instead just read posts.

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PostSubject: Re: Issue concerning staff incompetency and site failure in serving its members.   4/18/2014, 6:54 pm

1. The definition of a moderator posted in the topic isn't my "bunch of fluff," but one found here, to which I elaborated upon. Arrogance? Arrogance is your pretension in assuming I made up the definition myself. I wasn't going for original when I said staff should be unified, I was going for a reasonable proposition, especially when you observe politics and see what happens when a member of the parliament disagrees with his peers, it paints bad picture of the political party in question. How's the political party supposed to govern citizens if they can't come to an agreement? There is a problem, which you choose to ignore or disregard, whatever it may be - the problem exists. It's not about being so eager to punish members for their "obvious wrong actions," that's an idealist view of things. You can't seriously expect members not to make mistakes; the fact that you, as an Administrator, view the only solution to dealing with members is by punishing them goes to show how abrasive theme staff seems to adopt.

Problems in the staff, to be specific, that I can remember at the moment are as follows:

Inconsistency in establishing a consistent Jutsu-evaluation system, leading to the suggestion (and actual doing, I'm not sure if it's happened yet) of unapproving approved techniques

Lack of tackling of certain matters like: Body Replacement ('cause that's the only one I know of)

2. I was banned for retaliating towards a member that's used every opportunity he has to involve himself in my dealings with other members in the chat box, and his constant insult in calling me Mack, to which I've already mentioned pisses me off. He insulted and I retaliated, excuse me for executing a normal human reaction. But my WRONGFUL ban from the chatbox has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Punishment doesn't solve everything. It brings down morale, it creates rebels, it doesn't yield good fruits. I could do without the chatbox.

3. Silenced on chat, sure. But are you going to silence their private messages, skype calls, communication outside the chatbox? Silencing the matter in the chat box does not make sure of neutrality, especially after parties have already said their piece. That bit of spoken information sticks with members and staff and resonates. They just don't forget because you've cleared the chat box.

4. People die when they make mistakes, but should they? I make a character, I want my character to develop, be it through lost battles or whatever, not for he/she to die because I made a mistake OOC. You mention the site isn't meant to please everybody, so who is it meant to please? The minority? I'd assume not so much, since this "Our rebirth is only through your continued support, thank you," is still there. Not to mention, correcting "mistakes" aren't meant to erase it. They're meant for reparation and the betterment of an individual in the long run. Sure, you could also punish members and have them learn through punishment ... or be more accommodating to your members in helping, rather than criticizing and punishing their actions. I wasn't aware staff were there to punish members for wrong-doing, always thought they were there, to ... better yet, in the site's own words, "we stand by a staff that treats its members like prized possessions."

5. Editing posts wouldn't slow RP down or make things silly anymore than a conflict would. In fact, the conflict would slow things down more so than editing your post, since conflicts are so slow to get checked, with admins running away from it and leaving the moderators to do it, when the conflict rule clearly states one admin and one moderator should address the conflict at hand. Threat of danger for characters isn't restricted to grammatical errors in my post or fear of vague manip. As you mentioned, it's a ninja RP. People kill for a living, not grammatical errors. Fear is still present. We have ranks. We have missing ninjas. We have lunatics. Fear is still present. The fear of making a grammatical error in my post however shouldn't be there. That's a fear that shouldn't exist. This isn't English class.

6. The rule states not to vague manipulate, or put in something that wasn't there to begin with, unless that was removed. So, there is a definition, according to the site, which isn't allowed.

7. A hobby is done in leisure time for pleasure. When I create a character to role-play, a hobby of mine, and my character gets killed because I made a mistake in detailing something, like forgetting to state I created hand signs, it causes displeasure and does become a big deal. There's no reason my body replacement should work, what? And why wouldn't my body replacement work? I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone "trying harded" or "being lucky" than I am. I'm pointing fingers at the fallacy of the system in "punishing" members instead of "helping" them. We've lost two members to this system. We're gonna lose more, it's just a beginning and all that's gonna be left are the ones who are being protected by this system and with no one to abuse the system against, they too are gonna grow bored and leave. It's a gradual process. This is simply an observation, not a prophecy.

8. Serving members, just like any authority serves its citizens. Serving doesn't imply one has to be a "slave." Parents provide for their kids, because that's their duty. You have a duty as a member of staff to serve your members.

9. A role-playing forum, a community - whatever you want to refer to it as, they're all interchangeable. There are numerous definition of role-playing. The one generally accepted is found here. I'm not here to engage in a discussion over our personal opinions. I simply pointed out the problems I found on the site, and you criticizing me for doing so just goes to prove my point that members are indeed harassed by staff. I might have been the "only one" to speak up, but I'm not gonna be the least.


_____________________________________________________________________________________________

[13:41:34] Cut Uchiha : one post, now Raeburn a ghost. BANG BANG

To hell with circumstances, I create opportunities.

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PostSubject: Re: Issue concerning staff incompetency and site failure in serving its members.   4/18/2014, 7:53 pm

What a lovely background.

Shame really, how sometimes the rose colored glasses can appear in even the most hardened cases.

This is what I read

Chinou wrote:
If a staff member should stumble and fail occasionally or render bogus and flawed judgement, blame falls on the staff as a whole in failing to instruct said individual properly and equip them with the right tools (rules, profound knowledge of Naruto(debatable, I suppose), intelligence (very important when dealing with matters such as vague manipulation and questioning the logic of an action in a member's post), patience (do i really need to explain?), tolerance and impartiality).

Chinou wrote:
We are all imperfect, we make mistakes. We make grammatical errors, we forget to add in a bit of information here and there. When people are fighting in RP, they get carried away with the action and forget the basis of said actions sometimes. So why can't the staff compensate for our lack of perfection and give us the opportunity to edit our post to fix our errors? Or perform the action the way it should be done, such as hand signs for all ninjutsu, instead of being penalized? Not everyone knows about this rule, in fact I've only just become acquainted with it because of everyone talking about it just recently. Sure, maybe I should've read the rules more carefully, but I'm here to role-play... not read rules. Most are guilty of this. One of the few times the rules are given attention are in situations as these, where members try to call classless and cheap hits like, "you didn't create hand signs, there fore action never happened and you're dead."

Chinou wrote:
I always figured this was a role-play site, a hobby of mine really. It wasn't supposed to get this complicated or stressful.

Chinou wrote:
Staff are there to serve the members, and as demeaning as it sounds, that's the sound, irrefutable truth of the purpose of an individual belonging to the staff on any RP board. You serve the members, although not to the extent of being abused by them, but to a degree to which members feel comfortable bringing a matter to you because they know they can trust you with the issue at hand and wholeheartedly believe a resolution will be brought to the matter without any form of bias.

Chinou wrote:
Staff, become better in serving your members. It's not demeaning in any way, that's your job. If you don't like it, you shouldn't be on staff.

Chinou wrote:
I always figured this was a role-play site, a hobby of mine really. It wasn't supposed to get this complicated or stressful.

Chinou wrote:
I should be allowed to edit my post to execute the technique properly, the way it should have been done, instead of my action being voided - which makes no sense since my intentions were to use the technique in the first place, so why should it be "voided" because I didn't do it properly?

Chinou wrote:
The inability of the staff to come to a unanimous decision on some issues and conflict topics needs to be monitored and fixed accordingly, preferably quickly.

Chinou wrote:
(rules, profound knowledge of Naruto(debatable, I suppose),

Chinou wrote:
So why can't the staff compensate for our lack of perfection and give us the opportunity to edit our post to fix our errors? Or perform the action the way it should be done, such as hand signs for all ninjutsu, instead of being penalized? Not everyone knows about this rule, in fact I've only just become acquainted with it because of everyone talking about it just recently. Sure, maybe I should've read the rules more carefully, but I'm here to role-play... not read rules.

Chinou wrote:
I was banned for retaliating towards a member that's used every opportunity he has to involve himself in my dealings with other members in the chat box, and his constant insult in calling me Mack, to which I've already mentioned pisses me off. He insulted and I retaliated, excuse me for executing a normal human reaction.

Chinou wrote:
You serve the members, although not to the extent of being abused by them, but to a degree to which members feel comfortable bringing a matter to you because they know they can trust you with the issue at hand and wholeheartedly believe a resolution will be brought to the matter without any form of bias.

Chinou wrote:
Sure, you could also punish members and have them learn through punishment ... or be more accommodating to your members in helping, rather than criticizing and punishing their actions.

Spoiler:
 

Chinou wrote:
A hobby is done in leisure time for pleasure. When I create a character to role-play, a hobby of mine, and my character gets killed because I made a mistake in detailing something, like forgetting to state I created hand signs, it causes displeasure and does become a big deal.

Chinou wrote:
Staff, become better in serving your members. It's not demeaning in any way, that's your job. If you don't like it, you shouldn't be on staff.


I think it pretty much sums up the collective ideology of certain people. Sure, members can make mistakes, no big deal. When staff does it, huge deal, lots of stress. For members, rp is a hobby, and should be treated as such, for staff its a job.... and that somehow makes effort less valued.

Don't criticize members, criticize staff, members are immune to criticism because its a hobby/enjoyment, but staff, no its there job, so pile on the criticism. Dealing with constant conflicts over who killed who...

You make a mistake in dealing with something... what makes you different? Why do you "have" to kill others? Cause them displeasure and becomes a big deal to them. I'm just wondering why your immune to the ideology of "When I die, I'm too important" but then say "When other members die "rightfully" (Read as make a mistake) staff needs to intervene and they die..."

Why is it, if staff don't like it, they shouldn't be on staff, but if members don't like it, they should still be here??? That doesn't make sense to me, if you don't like it, I'll do my best to accommodate you, but in the end it is you choice, not ours. This is the way I like to run my site, this is the way I like my site. I'm doing this for my pleasure/hobby as well, I also need to think of my "leisure" time and that of my staff and friends. Yes, this site is public. And yes many people are here. But to try and say I'm not providing a service to people, free of charge and with a lot of effort on my and staff's part is very shallow. We are providing a service to people, perhaps they don't like it, which is okay, not everyone has to like me/my site. But please, don't try and change the service I and my staff provide, to be something else.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

Spoiler:
 
Spoiler:
 

Uchiha/Aburame
600 CR Nin/Gen/Fuuin Masteries


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Chinou
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PostSubject: Re: Issue concerning staff incompetency and site failure in serving its members.   4/18/2014, 8:05 pm

The second post was a rebuttal to Temp's. Doesn't matter, anyway...

Quote :
I think it pretty much sums up the collective ideology of certain people. Sure, members can make mistakes, no big deal. When staff does it, huge deal, lots of stress. For members, rp is a hobby, and should be treated as such, for staff its a job.... and that somehow makes effort less valued.

Don't criticize members, criticize staff, members are immune to criticism because its a hobby/enjoyment, but staff, no its there job, so pile on the criticism. Dealing with constant conflicts over who killed who...

You make a mistake in dealing with something... what makes you different? Why do you "have" to kill others? Cause them displeasure and becomes a big deal to them. I'm just wondering why your immune to the ideology of "When I die, I'm too important" but then say "When other members die "rightfully" (Read as make a mistake) staff needs to intervene and they die..."

Why is it, if staff don't like it, they shouldn't be on staff, but if members don't like it, they should still be here??? That doesn't make sense to me, if you don't like it, I'll do my best to accommodate you, but in the end it is you choice, not ours. This is the way I like to run my site, this is the way I like my site. I'm doing this for my pleasure/hobby as well, I also need to think of my "leisure" time and that of my staff and friends. Yes, this site is public. And yes many people are here. But to try and say I'm not providing a service to people, free of charge and with a lot of effort on my and staff's part is very shallow. We are providing a service to people, perhaps they don't like it, which is okay, not everyone has to like me/my site. But please, don't try and change the service I and my staff provide, to be something else.

Staff do make mistakes. I pointed that out. I also pointed out the individual staff shouldn't solely be held accountable because they weren't equipped rightly by the staff as a whole. Just like I also counseled the members to stop with the actions that make staff's job stressful, like all the vague manipulation and cheap shots that lead to conflict topics. My post a double-edged sword, not criticizing staff solely, but also members. Two collective groups here are at fault. More than just a suggestion, it's an issue that I felt we as a whole should resolve. Don't make it seem as such by quoting bits of my posts.

I haven't killed anyone. I haven't been involved in any topics resulting in members being killed, so I can't relate to that. I'm just saying, eradicate these cheap shots and vague manip, and make character deaths acceptable than it is now. If I died legitimately, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But when my death revolves around cheap shots or controversy, I have a problem with. I wasn't telling you to change your service to be something else. It was a suggestion to improve upon something already set.

If staff doesn't like the job, they shouldn't be on it, because of the responsibility and duties it entails. Different from just being a member ... who really has no responsibility and can do whatever as long as they don't cross the boundaries or rules.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

[13:41:34] Cut Uchiha : one post, now Raeburn a ghost. BANG BANG

To hell with circumstances, I create opportunities.

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Lokifur Khaddaoui
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PostSubject: Re: Issue concerning staff incompetency and site failure in serving its members.   4/18/2014, 9:05 pm

Chinou wrote:
1. The definition of a moderator posted in the topic isn't my "bunch of fluff," but one found here, to which I elaborated upon. Arrogance? Arrogance is your pretension in assuming I made up the definition myself. I wasn't going for original when I said staff should be unified, I was going for a reasonable proposition, especially when you observe politics and see what happens when a member of the parliament disagrees with his peers, it paints bad picture of the political party in question. How's the political party supposed to govern citizens if they can't come to an agreement? There is a problem, which you choose to ignore or disregard, whatever it may be - the problem exists. It's not about being so eager to punish members for their "obvious wrong actions," that's an idealist view of things. You can't seriously expect members not to make mistakes; the fact that you, as an Administrator, view the only solution to dealing with members is by punishing them goes to show how abrasive theme staff seems to adopt.

Problems in the staff, to be specific, that I can remember at the moment are as follows:

Inconsistency in establishing a consistent Jutsu-evaluation system, leading to the suggestion (and actual doing, I'm not sure if it's happened yet) of unapproving approved techniques

Lack of tackling of certain matters like: Body Replacement ('cause that's the only one I know of)
Definition of a moderator? Why is that relevant with a topic where you're complaining about all of the staff and how they're all unified? All of the staff are moderators? There's no political problem or any problem. People aren't unified or equal for a reason. Things aren't going to be agreed to quickly or to the pleasure of singular entities. There's no leaders or anybody required that emanates inadequacy. Why would the staff stupidly act in solidarity, so that there's no diverse opinion? Members aren't just helped by punishment. They're helped with rules which you choose to ignore because you say you just want to "RP". Again, you give no solutions. Again, you give no examples that aren't original. You're not experienced on multiple sites and you have no credibility in complaining with being banned along with making this post because of your personal bias. All sites again have their creations evaluated again over time. You think jutsu are going to stay approved forever? You think that words crafted over a period of a few minutes and approved in a few minutes by a single staff member are going to remain perfectly fine forever? Your problem just seethes with ignorance on how all RP sites work. Creations aren't allowed forever and sites are always changing. There's no perfect system. "Tackling of certain matters" what? You're just biased to the system of Kazumi and Juicy because they seemingly should have a better chance, or something. Body Replacement has no problems. It's already been explained in the canon how it works and common sense dictates such as well. People are expected to know the abilities of all jutsu and Body Replacement isn't special. What, you think it's seriously teleporting? When was the last time it was even used? Alas, your complaints again don't matter. These aren't "site crippling problems". You've failed to provide an amass series of examples as to why the staff is a failure somehow. You know why? It's because of personal bias. Bias has you bring up only a few examples, as those are the only ones that "matter to you".

2. I was banned for retaliating towards a member that's used every opportunity he has to involve himself in my dealings with other members in the chat box, and his constant insult in calling me Mack, to which I've already mentioned pisses me off. He insulted and I retaliated, excuse me for executing a normal human reaction. But my WRONGFUL ban from the chatbox has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Punishment doesn't solve everything. It brings down morale, it creates rebels, it doesn't yield good fruits. I could do without the chatbox.
Retaliation in that form isn't allowed. Why do you think these are excuses? You were banned for obviously taking things seriously on a chatbox and thus taking humor in insulting others. Justifying yourself makes you seem immature. You didn't ask for others to help you. Like a child, you lashed out at everybody on the chatbox. For a while now, you've seemed to think it's okay to troll others and fuel arguments, while preserving an arrogant standpoint, by using quick relays of messages that you make in unnecessary attention-grabbing succession. Again, everything for some reason revolves around you. Who's been punished but you? Why is your banning a problem that affects everybody? It's not creating rebels; you're not important to anybody. There's no good fruit in you, as you got banned. What makes you so self-important? If you can do without the chatbox, how are you punished? Why are you a rebel?

3. Silenced on chat, sure. But are you going to silence their private messages, skype calls, communication outside the chatbox? Silencing the matter in the chat box does not make sure of neutrality, especially after parties have already said their piece. That bit of spoken information sticks with members and staff and resonates. They just don't forget because you've cleared the chat box.
It does, as I don't care after that point. Skype isn't used by me anymore and other members of staff aren't caring about those conversations of self-importance. Oh, the Skype calls between 3 people. Oh, the private messages between 2 people. How immensely important those are. How many times have you seen people have private messages between more than 2 people? The chatbox being silenced solves everythang. Neutrality is kept by new members and staff. The people who are self-important and think their opinion has to be the supreme one in an argument on a mere chatbox that simply breeds more problems are made to stop. Obviously, that helps. You want chaos on chatboxes? Hahaha...Wut?

4. People die when they make mistakes, but should they? I make a character, I want my character to develop, be it through lost battles or whatever, not for he/she to die because I made a mistake OOC. You mention the site isn't meant to please everybody, so who is it meant to please? The minority? I'd assume not so much, since this "Our rebirth is only through your continued support, thank you," is still there. Not to mention, correcting "mistakes" aren't meant to erase it. They're meant for reparation and the betterment of an individual in the long run. Sure, you could also punish members and have them learn through punishment ... or be more accommodating to your members in helping, rather than criticizing and punishing their actions. I wasn't aware staff were there to punish members for wrong-doing, always thought they were there, to ... better yet, in the site's own words, "we stand by a staff that treats its members like prized possessions."
Uh, yes they should. They're not more important than the other person they're trying to kill. Everybody is equally prone to dying. Your "wants" don't matter, as you're just being ignorant. The posts you make complaining, the time you play video games, the time you spend on Skype, and all of the RP posts you make in response to the "inevitable death" waste development and time. Your development and "work" aren't hard to reproduce with a new character. Characters aren't special. Everything you do has been produced before. Your character can have similar concepts or ideas. Your mistakes OOC aren't your only mistakes made. You don't read rules which govern the very existence of your character. You don't understand the scope of how easy it is to not waste your time and simply make a new character. Somehow, you believe that your characters shouldn't die as it's unfair or that they need to be kept around. Why is that? Anyway, the site isn't meant to please people like you who don't try to understand their arguments stall the site. People die in a ninja RP. They don't control the actions of everybody else on the RP. Your existence isn't the one that matters the most. You don't try as much as everybody else to develop their characters and you go inactive.

You're not the most active person on the site. No suggestions are made by you and you simply act from your instinctual convulsions made in your head that regard a matter, thinking your opinion must be correct, as you're personally wronged, so everybody is wronged. Again, no system is perfect. You will always make mistakes. Nothing will make your lack of effort and personal inability change. Nobody is going to help you improve. Extra effort to help everybody is a waste of time and resources, as everybody is different. Some people can't learn like you and they're too lazy. Some people don't even read rules, like you. There's no reason for us to put forth effort for you to save you. You're the one who needs to learn there's no reason as to why we should be helping you improve. You're not special. Members are prized possessions in their vast quantites. Not everybody is a "prized possession". What kind of logic is this? Surely, you have some common sense. People who come on and spam aren't a prized possession.


5. Editing posts wouldn't slow RP down or make things silly anymore than a conflict would. In fact, the conflict would slow things down more so than editing your post, since conflicts are so slow to get checked, with admins running away from it and leaving the moderators to do it, when the conflict rule clearly states one admin and one moderator should address the conflict at hand. Threat of danger for characters isn't restricted to grammatical errors in my post or fear of vague manip. As you mentioned, it's a ninja RP. People kill for a living, not grammatical errors. Fear is still present. We have ranks. We have missing ninjas. We have lunatics. Fear is still present. The fear of making a grammatical error in my post however shouldn't be there. That's a fear that shouldn't exist. This isn't English class.
Editing posts saves people from death and takes an equal amount of time as a conflict. This made me laugh. Why? Because the people who need to edit have to go through many steps that brand them as weak. Firstly, they have to accept that they made a mistake. Do you think people accept they make a mistake in RP so easily? Hell no. Bahahahahahaha. It's the exact same thing as a conflict. Except, there's no place for them to reasonably post their problems. Skype, PM'z, or a chatbox...Their arguments litter these places. They forget how their argument is going and it becomes a personal offense a person made a mistake. It's an attack on their IRL characterrrr. The problem slowly becomes no longer a mistake in the post and it becomes about personal superiorities. Also, Kazumi's conflict won't be ran away from. I'll check it in a little while. How long has it been up? A day? Le so self-important and biased. Anyway, if people keep having to edit their posts they'll want to quit the RP eventually, as well. You don't understand people keep making mistakes in their posts. Would you really RP with me if I pointed out how you had to rewrite your post because of various mistakes you made every day? Uh....Yeah, so like I said...If you don't want a threat of danger then you're completely ignorant. You should go to a non-kill RP. How hard is that? You don't want any threat of danger...So just go to one of those? Wait wait wait...OH right. You want to make things fair. Somehow, you think all of these threats of danger will improve you if they're done away with. Somehow, you expect to have an equal chance in fights when this is your "hobby" and you just play around socially on Skype all day. Seriously? You just want to boost your self-esteem and you think it's a problem with pride. Lazy lazy lazy.

6. The rule states not to vague manipulate, or put in something that wasn't there to begin with, unless that was removed. So, there is a definition, according to the site, which isn't allowed.
Why do you number your things if you're not going to respond properly? Also, there's no rule. Also, again, you admit already you don't read rules. I'll say it again, you're not having an equal opportunity to win a fight if you don't read the rules. We're not your slaves who give you improvements or help when you don't even try. People don't care about you as much as you care about yourself. Not knowing the rules of society mean you give up on it. Society doesn't help you if you don't know the rules of society or try to not complain about changing it when you don't know the rules. When you don't understand that the RP isn't as serious or distorted place as you think then maybe you'll open your eyes further.

Quote :
Read rules. There's no excuse not to. You spend more time on the chatbox, Skype, playing videogames, being online, making RP posts, etc. No excuse. People just want to be lazy and have things handed down to them on a silver platter like I've already detailed above. Do you know how vague manipulation works? It works both ways. If people aren't allowed to fill in details, as every RP allows, then the RP is stalled. Also, if details aren't filled in, you have Dandy's/Haitian's style of RPing against you. There's no middle ground. There's no definition. RPing is a bunch of words that are either vague or not vague. You can't pick certain parameters.
7. A hobby is done in leisure time for pleasure. When I create a character to role-play, a hobby of mine, and my character gets killed because I made a mistake in detailing something, like forgetting to state I created hand signs, it causes displeasure and does become a big deal. There's no reason my body replacement should work, what? And why wouldn't my body replacement work? I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone "trying harded" or "being lucky" than I am. I'm pointing fingers at the fallacy of the system in "punishing" members instead of "helping" them. We've lost two members to this system. We're gonna lose more, it's just a beginning and all that's gonna be left are the ones who are being protected by this system and with no one to abuse the system against, they too are gonna grow bored and leave. It's a gradual process. This is simply an observation, not a prophecy.
It's not our fault you don't read the rules? Oh...You killed somebody, but you didn't know you couldn't do that...Let's let you go out free of charge. Your character isn't important. It's not something to have displeasure towards when it dies. RP posts you make for that character take more time then the character application. Your character isn't original and nothing in it is unique. You decided not to try and keep it alive while others did. There's no "big deal" for other people. There's only a "big deal" for yourself. If you fail to use a jutsu correctly then you should lose. Why should people put up with your mistakes constantly and keep having you edit when you're obviously inferior? You want more chances, but there's no reason to keep giving them on a RP. You're not special, you're wasting time, and you can easily make another character. You want help, but you don't try. You want help, but you don't give suggestions. You want help, but nobody cares about you. Nobody should have to help you. What are you entitled to? Everybody in the world doesn't get help. Everybody in the world isn't equal. Two members have been lost to the system when they kept making mistakes and they've been known to always quit sites. Also, I believe Kidbushido rejoined. Additionally, these people are people known not to try or anything like that. Why should they be catered to?

Finally, no system is perfect. Systems are meant to filter out the good and the bad. They don't keep everything. No, we're not going to lose more, and even if we did they wouldn't be in vast quantities as you think. How many times have you had this argument made on a site? This is never why sites die. Sites die because people lose interest, there's no advertising, or there's no staff. Sites die for a multitude of reasons combined. You just bring up this common reasoning that the losers have. Losers are everywhere, but you don't want there to be losers. That's impossible. Sites don't die because "prized members" leave because they're mad. You think there's a way to "abuse the system". You think there's something "special" that makes others unable to lose. Le wrong. You're just ignorant. How do you arrogantly think you can portray everybody? Why do you think you're so "experienced" and you know the personalities of everyone? Are you telling me Kazumi left because he doesn't abuse systems? That must be a joke. Everybody tries to abuse the system. Everybody can make accidents in abusing a system. Did you not understand my point about how people gamble when trying vague manipulation reliance? Do you not understand how people can become unreasonably strong without even trying?


8. Serving members, just like any authority serves its citizens. Serving doesn't imply one has to be a "slave." Parents provide for their kids, because that's their duty. You have a duty as a member of staff to serve your members.
Parents aren't perfectionists and don't save their children from anything that can harm them.

9. A role-playing forum, a community - whatever you want to refer to it as, they're all interchangeable. There are numerous definition of role-playing. The one generally accepted is found here. I'm not here to engage in a discussion over our personal opinions. I simply pointed out the problems I found on the site, and you criticizing me for doing so just goes to prove my point that members are indeed harassed by staff. I might have been the "only one" to speak up, but I'm not gonna be the least.
What? You made this topic expecting people to make solutions for you? You think that you're immune to criticisms and that everything you say is right? Yes, that's what you think. There's no other reason to complain about criticisms unless one has immense arrogance. You tried to point out "problems", but could only find personal problems you have that affect your bias connections. Lemme quote myself because you made basically no response to my statements. Basically, you've no reason to think that there is a real way to think a RP should work. Society doesn't work in a specific way. Every family or community can be different. You just want what you like. You're not thinking about other people. You don't think about how things can benefit the majority. Experience isn't present in you because you always give up on sites because of your personal opinions being refuted.
Quote :
"Learn how to RP". "This is a role playing forum". Nu, it's a community. It's a place where there are rules like every other place in the world. There's no definition of role playing. You don't know everything about role playing, you're not on as much, and you're biased to your connections with other people. Unlike other people, you're the unique existence in a community that decided to speak out for no reason, as you were banned unlike other people. Friends and people you respect, or knowledge you thought you had a grasp of; all of these things were disrupted. Now, you've decided that somehow arrogantly and ignorantly affects everybody else. It doesn't. It won't. Life continues. Not having conflicts won't erase inferiority. It won't create equality or neutrality. Conflicts exist everywhere and even if there weren't "cheap shots" you're so afraid of; there would still be other problems. Vague manipulation doesn't exist. It works both ways and is integrated into RPing, but people somehow believe it's a style, or something incomprehensible they can't understand. The reason Juicy, Dandy, Kazumi, and n00bs all die so easily is because it's not a supreme style of RPing. It's a gambling style where people just use the words that are matched in RPing, and that's why they always die to n00bs, or people who "suddenly" or "luckily" pick out certain mistakes in what they do. Le stop having expectations or being blind and instead just read posts.

Chinou wrote:


Staff do make mistakes. I pointed that out. I also pointed out the individual staff shouldn't solely be held accountable because they weren't equipped rightly by the staff as a whole. Just like I also counseled the members to stop with the actions that make staff's job stressful, like all the vague manipulation and cheap shots that lead to conflict topics. My post a double-edged sword, not criticizing staff solely, but also members. Two collective groups here are at fault. More than just a suggestion, it's an issue that I felt we as a whole should resolve. Don't make it seem as such by quoting bits of my posts.
Hilarious. You think everybody should take equal responsibility when you die or when a friend dies? Again, this point gets old. Everything revolves around you. Somehow, your opinion should be spreeeead out to everybody else. Your death isn't justified. It's a sin against the site's stability somehow. Members aren't going to be changed. Staff aren't going to be changed. The atmosphere or personalities of people around you don't change to your whims, or lack of experience. Just because you're lazy doesn't mean we'll let you have your opinion affect everybody else and make them lazy too. As usual, you give no ideas. As usual, you give no examples. You're the only one at fault. Blaming others through projection isn't our problem.

I haven't killed anyone. I haven't been involved in any topics resulting in members being killed, so I can't relate to that. I'm just saying, eradicate these cheap shots and vague manip, and make character deaths acceptable than it is now. If I died legitimately, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But when my death revolves around cheap shots or controversy, I have a problem with. I wasn't telling you to change your service to be something else. It was a suggestion to improve upon something already set.
Why does this affect you, then? How do you understand things if you don't die or kill anybody? Your small observations and subsequent fears that drive you to make instinctual responses give you no ground. Again, there's no "acceptable" way to die. Removing "cheap shots"? No, this isn't a no-death site, and that'd be the only one that would allow RPing to keep going. Otherwise, people would lose their pride and personalities to anger when their posts are criticized all the time for having errors or mistakes. People on this site aren't ignorant enough to not understand posts have mistakes, either. Anything that has you die is a cheap shot, as you've detailed above. Overall, you want a no-kill site. Acceptable ways to die don't exist just as equality doesn't. Why do you think there's some way that you'll become equal to other people or perfection will be achieved? Always, there will be a loser.

If staff doesn't like the job, they shouldn't be on it, because of the responsibility and duties it entails. Different from just being a member ... who really has no responsibility and can do whatever as long as they don't cross the boundaries or rules.
What job? How about you tell me what the job of the staff is? Oh yeah...Rules? Didn't you admit you don't read those? Does that not make you a member? It should, but alas we still accept you. People are awfully kind.

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Gender : Female
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PostSubject: Re: Issue concerning staff incompetency and site failure in serving its members.   4/18/2014, 9:20 pm

I think a topic like this has gone on far enough.

Chinou, I hate to disagree, but 3-4 paragraphs about staff not doing there job, and 1-3 sentences about members failing in vague manipulation, isn't close to equal or unbiased.

You state that staff as a whole should bear the consequences of one failings, but that doesn't rationalize in a society. They make a mistake, and the site must deal with it. However, us not "preparing" them should be an issue either. Who prepared you to do such things? Who prepared you not to read the rules, not to follow site procedure and such? Who is at fault for those things? Because as you've said, its not yourself, you are imperfect and we need to accept it.

I take criticism, a lot of it. But I won't tolerate unfounded/generalized attacks against my staff and site just to show off what a "capable" observer you are. There is no logical point other than ego flaunting to create a topic like this, in such a general way. You did it to try and "one up" the site and staff as if to say "I can to a better job, I just choose to be a member". The fact is, you aren't on staff, you haven't even applied to staff, and have a very narrow view of the site.

This topic is finished and locked, I don't want to see another one like it, from anyone anywhere. Criticizing constructively is fine, as long as there are solutions or not such a clear jaded view. But this, this isn't criticizing, this is a subtle attempt at trying to humiliate the site/staff to bring about a profound change that suits 1 single person. Which is the very definition of selfishness.

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